Intro
I have in the past disdained the whole “rush through the action RPG campaigns to get to the endgame” because endless grind with no goals is not really my thing.
However, there is one case where it is my thing, which is something to do during meetings because having something relatively mindless helps me focus on the meeting itself.
For the past couple of years I’ve been using Rogue: Genesia for this. RG is a bullet heaven game and by far my favorite in that genre; I have 850 hours on record and most of those are probably real and the vast majority are during meetings.
However, I really like Action RPGs, in a way different from my feelings about bullet heaven games, so I was thinking about what an ARPG for meetings would look like, and endgame content seems appropriate there.
Also, I really enjoyed Path Of Exile’s endgame Atlas Of Worlds system. I stopped playing PoE because it has built up, like, 30 game systems over the years and I just always felt lost as a result. Also, you can’t pause. Seriously, y’all? But the actual Atlas mechanic was neat.
So, I thought I’d try out and rate various ARPG endgame systems for my specific, idiosyncratic goals.
The Scales
All ratings are like “good”, “bad”, “amazing”, etc; fully subjective.
Mindless Most Of The Time: There should be large swathes of time when you’re just killing shit and not thinking too hard about what to do. Front-loading decisions is allowed (i.e. “I’m trying to grind for The Wand Of Sparkly Unicorns”), but once the decisions are pre-loaded you should be able to go for at least an hour just killing stuff.
Interesting Decisions Occasionally: Between mindless grind, there should be some decisions to make that actually matter, see pre-loading above.
Interesting Mechanic/System Tying Together The Grind: The overall setup shouldn’t just be “here’s a bunch of monsters”, there should be something tying things together. PoE’s Atlas Of Worlds is kind of the baseline here (although in fairness, I haven’t played PoE 1’s maps very much and I won’t be replaying them for this review, but I gather PoE 2’s maps are very similar).
How Much Trading Is Required: I don’t like trading with other players. I don’t mind trading with vendors, so I try to imagine all the other players are just vendors and I’m saving up to buy that great vendor item, but I like to be The Main Character in games and trading with players can kill that for me. I also don’t have hundreds of hours to play, usually. In many games, if you not spending hundreds or thousands of hours, you need to trade to get the good loot.
How Long It Takes To Get There With A New Character: Yeah PoE2 is gonna lose this one probably.
The Games
Chronicon
Path Of Exile
PoE2 is mostly PoE but you can pause the game. Why would I play the version you can’t pause? And also the one that is so complicated you need a PhD in the game to understand all the systems?
Path Of Exile 2
General Feel: Mapping in PoE2 is genuinely super fun and was pretty addictive for me for a while.
Mindless Most Of The Time: Very Good, although unless you’ve got an amazing build you’re at risk of dying if you’re not paying some attention.
Interesting Decisions Occasionally: Very Good, deciding where to go next on the Atlas or what the next gear to buy for your character is can consume real thought.
Interesting Mechanic/System Tying Together The Grind: Very Good, although I could sure do with one or two fewer mechanics. I really hope the Vaal Temple doesn’t end up in the main game.
How Much Trading Is Required: Very Bad, but at least they’ve fixed it so you don’t have to talk to people to trade. Unless you’re going to make a lifestyle out of this, you’re going to be trading for approximately all your gear. The crafting mechanics are insanely complex.
How Long It Takes To Get There With A New Character: Very Bad. Took me 28 hours with my plant druid, but I’m pretty sure I accidentally left the game running a few times, so maybe actually 20-24 hours. I could have gone faster if I’d been more rigorous about upgrading my + skill level gear.
That was with like 20 divine orbs to use to buy stuff, and ignoring all the plot and stuff. First time is much slower.
Other Notes: A definitely annoying aspect is that because it’s fundamentally a muhmohpuhger, maps are instances you can lose access to, and that counts as failing the map. They take about 15 minutes if you’re actually having fun killing monsters, so if something interrupts you in that time, well, you have to leave your character in the map with the game running, turning your computer into an expensive space heater for however long that takes.
Last Epoch
Dragonkin?
Diablo 3
- the item sets / haedrig’s gift are great, but lock you into skills that work with a good set
- I love
- that for levelling the blacksmith and shops actually have stuff that isn’t shit
- the clear indication of how much an item is going to help
- skipping boss dialogue
- More likely to disconnect if you try to hold an instance open while AFK
Diablo 4?
Special Case: Striving For Light
- somewhere between an ARPG and a Bullet Heaven, because only 2 (usually 1) attacks
- don’t like the low mob density
- don’t like how you have to avoid damage all the time
- don’t like the animation style
- pretty art
- note from discord about game style
I had a realization today: with roguelite style games (i.e. play for a while, finish play, restart with more stuff) it makes a huge difference to me whether the “finish play” step can be a success. In Rogue: Genesia you do runs through a bunch of maps but you can win, and then you restart (you can, of course, also lose, but there exists a win condition; you then make the game harder in various ways to keep it interesting). In Striving For Light, the only possible finish condition is you die. I’ve played the former for hundreds of hours. I’m pretty much done with the latter after half a dozen. There are other factors, but I think that’s the biggest one; I have no interest in playing a game where “you failed so we’re starting you back at the beginning” is a central and required aspect of the gameplay loop.
[22:53]rlpowell: Having said that, for people who (1) like action RPGs (2) don’t mind the thing I just pointed at and (3) would like an ARPG that’s noticably harder than usual, where each monster must be taken seriously, I definitely recommend Striving For Light. There’s an excellent game in there, it’s just not for me.